Dec 21
Yellowstone Valley Farmers Market
North 29th at 2d Avenue, North
Billings, MT 59102
406.855.1299
Facility:
Open-Air
Open:
Seasonally
July-October
Saturday, 8:30 a.m.-Noon
August
Wednesday, 5:00 p.m.-8:00 p.m
CFM
WIC Coupons
FM Member ID #2829
July 24th, 2010 at 12:35:20 (12:35 pm)
I have always thought that the Farmers Market was not a place for dogs but today after being snapped at by a big dog, I feel very strongly that dogs should not be allowed. It is just too conjested and with small kids around its just not a place for dogs. Billings has a very nice market and this would only make it better. Don
July 25th, 2010 at 16:27:07 (4:27 pm)
I agree with Don. I’m always scarred that one of my little girls will get bit. I really wish they would make the market a little bigger maybe spread out the booths. It feels so cramped down there. Or maybe extending the hours of the market maybe starting at 7:30 or 8:00. I would definitely go earier to avoid the crowd.
August 22nd, 2010 at 13:57:44 (1:57 pm)
@Don
I was hoping someone would take an opposing view of your comment, but since that has not happened, I guess I will. I’m no dog expert, as these are just my personal opinions.
Don, just from my experience and your own words, you seem to have some trepidation, nervousness, or maybe some anxiety and apprehension when unexpectedly facing a large dog. I understand that you are not alone, if that’s the case.
But a person’s fear of a dog is no reason to ban dogs from public places. Frankly, the only way to train dogs to be comfortable in public places is to take them there often, and ideally, beginning when they’re young.
A true “Dog Lover” is a rare and very special person … they have mastered the ability to communicate with another species on the planet. They can communicate with dogs by facial changes, body movements, and the most common — other than voice — being hand commands.
Most people think that Dog Training Classes are to train their dog to do stuff. Negative. Dog Training Classes are meant to train the owner the correct way to communicate with their dog; hence, they will enjoy their dog more, and have the ability to train them.
The Dog Training Classes Instructors know how rewarding it is to own a well-trained, loyal dog, and they also know it’s something the owner must commit to for months … and to a lesser degree, the first few years of a dog’s life … that being based on getting a puppy.
Frustration is one emotion that someone adopting a dog, specifically a puppy, should be ready and prepared to deal with, without getting upset. A dog trained correctly should never need to be yelled at, should never be teased so as to surprise or scare him, and without question, that dog should NEVER, NEVER BE HIT, or physically abused in any other way. That dog should be shown affection, compassion, and love. That dog will always give you more in return.
Your dog will provide a lifetime of love, the ultimate in loyalty, and the utmost in devotion, beyond the ability of any other being on Earth. And there’s one other thing your dog will provide without a moment’s hesitation: your dog will place his own life on the line to protect yours, doing so without a second thought. How many humans do you know that would protect you like that?
Years ago, I recall a TV interview about home invasions, with an ex-con burglar as their guest. He said home alarms were jokes, that never stopped them. He even said people were so stupid that they even placed the alarm sign out in front, thinking it was a deterrent, which in reality, it told the burglar which alarm was installed, so they knew precisely how to get around it. On the other hand, a dog in the home always told them to find another home to burglarize. They had no intentions to deal with anyone’s dog.
Don, you really got me on your “snapping” remark. What exactly did the large dog do, that you referred to as “snapping”? Why did it do it? And who was in control of the dog at the time? Has any other large dog ever snapped at you?
I have never heard of a large dog “snapping” — only small dogs “snap”. In the same vein, the dogs that bite the most are small breed dogs — the ones most usually portrayed in movies as the most mellow and gentle breeds, and usually anything but what they are made out to be. It’s very sad, as when Disney’s 101 Dalmatians came out for that year’s Christmas release, it was a huge hit.
To tie into the film, thousands of parents had a Dalmatian puppy waiting under their tree for their kids Christmas morning. By April, all across the country, animal shelters were over-filled with unwanted Dalmatian puppies. Dalmatians are nothing like the movie made them out to be. In the film, they were mellow, cute and smart. In reality, they are very hyper dogs that need a lot of attention. The same goes for Jack Russell Terriers and Collies — non-mellow dogs playing mellow roles.
As I’ve said often: “I wish more people were like dogs.”
And lastly, besides their desire and ability to learn to take commands from their alpha humans — they also learn that ability, for their own use. The dog will get their owner’s attention, and relay information to them, so the dog’s alpha male (or female) can immediately understand what their dog is attempting to tell them.
But what baffles me most is that extra sense that dogs have, something even humans have nothing that compares. A canine never forgets someone they meet — even if the dog was just a puppy when it first met that person, and never came in contact with them, again. Even if eight-or-more years creeps by, all a dog needs is one sniff — just one good sniff — to remember everything about that person as if it were yesterday.
Everything.
With up to eight-or-more years slipping by before that same person sees that same dog again, chances are that the human will have virtually no recollections of the dog, unless the person knows the dog’s owners. The person’s memories will likely be very limited about the canine, except that the dog has grown substantially. The person may also remember more — *may* — but when it comes to specifics, the dog will remember much more … not *may* … but: *will.*
So, if that person was memorably kind to the dog, the dog will be happy to see them, and show visible excitement when the person greets the dog for the first time in eight years.
But if that person had been mean to that dog, abusive or deliberately tried to scare him, thinking it was funny, once that dog got a good whiff again, he will experience a character change in a split second. From where the canine had just been mellow and smiling, he took on his defensive rolls, such as serious barking along with intense breathing, tail between his hind legs, head lower than usual, and the hair on his back — from his neck to his tail — all standing up. There’s no doubt, whatsoever, he is upset about what this person had done to him.
If you’ve ever faced that type of emotional change, that quickly, in a large dog, one who’s looking directly at you … you can now describe the feeling known as terrified. Unfortunately, most people would likely say the dog went crazy — especially the abuser (as a cover-up) — but definitely not the owners. Unfortunately, dogs usually pay for mans’ ignorance.
That’s another “negative” as in “incorrect.” It’s one of the very few sounds a dog can make, and generally, a dog growls out of fear. It’s a sign that the dog is scared. He’s trying to communicate with you. Don’t give him a reason to be scared, or simply stop, and everything will be fine.
Summary Position:
I FIRMLY DISAGREE WITH BANNING DOGS FROM MARKETS. I do believe that all Markets should have their DOG RULES clearly posted at the main entrance to the market, and on their Web site. This will benefit the dog owners, as well as other shoppers.
Summary Reasons:
• If it’s due to a person’s fear of dogs, then it’s not the dog’s problem, and the dog should not need to pay for it.
• Farms have dogs and cats, as well as many wild critters and lots of birds — big birds, that land and defecate on the produce. Dogs won’t be doing anything like that at the Market, so let’s ban the birds, and let the dogs stay.
• And lastly, my experience has been that people who leash their dogs and take them every where they go, have the best dogs … bar none. They likely consider their dogs family members, and the dog lives in their home with them. Those dogs would only show aggression if it were for defense.
As long as each dog is properly leashed, and the owners know they must clean-up after their dogs (or get fined), and manage them properly … then let those puppies on in.
August 28th, 2010 at 11:40:27 (11:40 am)
I applaud the time you took to write this response. It is amazing all the subjects you covered regarding our 4 legged buddies. You really got a sweet message across!!!!
I work with FOA Utah (Friends of Animals) and see so many of the sweet dogs you mention in our shelters. The one we see a lot of is the Chihuahua. They became popular with the Paris Hiltons and Reese Witherspoons.. The cute little dog in the purse.. But these little dogs have a bit of an attitude and are very protective of their owners.
I have fostered many and currently have 2 that nobody wants. I welcome all dogs in my store and love to see them with their owners in public places. A farmers market is a great place to bring your dogs…
So thanks for writing this great response on behalf of our 4 legged friends…
August 28th, 2010 at 13:07:44 (1:07 pm)
It is difficult to find a place to take your dog to socialize and get exercise since they’re banned in most of our parks and I really enjoy that dogs ARE allowed at the farmer’s market.
My children also love to visit with them. However it’s very important that people remember that you should always ask the owner if it’s ok before approaching, or allowing your children to approach a dog.
August 28th, 2010 at 20:19:50 (8:19 pm)
jb brings up an excellent point.
Just like you would not walk up and grab someone’s possession, no matter what it was, respect someone’s dog and ask for permission. A canine can be spooked, especially the small ones. And if they’re spooked, just from someone reaching quickly to grab it, or hug it — these are all actions that a small dog, in particular, will take as an offensive move. Their only defense is a bite.
I happened to be watching this, when my daughter was about 10-11, standing, facing a woman about the same height, who was holding a Jack Russell. My daughter was not even paying attention to the dog, when for no apparent reason, it lashed out to bite her.
If it had reached her, it would have bitten her right in the face. Like I said, the dog was a non-issue, as the woman and my daughter were casually talking. Little did the woman or my daughter know, she got too close in that’s dog’s mind.
Frankly, I’ve never owned a dog less than 50-pounds, and that was a mixed breed … and she was my biggest concern. She never showed aggression to people, but she was able to run down, catch, and kill a squirrel.
Most of my dogs have been 80-105 pounds. Keep in mind, all dogs began as a wolf. Just imagine all the weird inter, outer and just odd mixed breeding that had to be done to reduce the size of the animal. Weird science.
Thanks jb.
Larry
August 28th, 2010 at 20:27:10 (8:27 pm)
Hi Marilyn,
That’s very humbling — I’m coming up from my bow, now [not to be confused with bow wow].
Seriously, though, thank you for the very kind words, and the support. It didn’t take any time at all to write that previous comment … at least not that I noticed.
I have a very good friend, Robin, who is truly a champion for small dog rescue, and probably much larger canines, too (like in the 9-18 pound range), as well as staying on top of legislation and other issues. Robin is not only trying to put out fires, but she’s also trying to prevent them. She loves what she does … and it is truly passion that drives her.
I bet you’ve felt it as well, Marilyn, but I’ve always sensed a camaraderie between dog people. I mean it could be that we are all a bunch of aliens, but on the other hand, it’s something about being able to relate to another species … and they back in return. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been warned about a dog that will not like me at all on the first visit, as well as the second, and within minutes, that dog and I are on the floor together, having a good old time, discussing local trees.
HELLO? CAN YOU STOP WITH THE LITTERS, PLEASE?
Dogs are actually the only animals that humans created, and then, in general, we treat them like garbage. In 2008, I wrote an article about the pet overpopulation problem, which ended-up running on NowPublic.com.
Not being able to get national statistical data, I found a county in California with five years of historical data. Granted, it was not very scientific, but it provided a true ballpark of what reality was at the time. Extrapolating the numbers to the national level, provided a picture beyond surprising, and frankly, sickening.
About 61-million (61,000,000) pets were euthanized nationally each year, between 2000-2005 — shockingly, that’s about 25-thousand pets per day across the country. And people still say, “It’s not fair to have a female and not let her have at least one litter.”
I currently have two rescues. I lean towards the canines that will probably not be adopted, and instead, euthanized — dogs that usually pay for their master’s mistreatment of them, with their own lives. And although the reason has still eluded some experts, black dogs, by far, are euthanized more than any other color of dog.
No country takes such a serious pride in their national breed as Germany does. Female canines must be certified healthy and without any defects before permitting them to have their first and subsequent litters. If they are found to have genetic defects, they are sterilized.
THE VERY ABUSED RESCUE
In 2006, I rescued the most vicious canine I ever had — a pure-bred, somewhat rare, mostly black German Shepherd. He had been dumped way out in the woods, and almost starved to death. It took me a good 4-5 months, of growling back-and-forth, to teach and assure him that not all humans are mean, abusive jerks … and that no human will ever hurt him again. Deep down, he’s nothing but a loving, affectionate dog. He doesn’t bark. He never tries to run. He only wants to greet every person whose nearby. His friendliness can be very time-consuming.
He likely was a very expensive animal when he was bought as a puppy. From what he’s been able to “tell” me, he was hit, beaten, had things thrown at him, had been taught, unsuccessfully, to be mean, meaning he was consistently treated with hostility, and apparently he was owned by a Harley rider. Even though the motorcycle connection came out clearly, and continues to, I, myself rode motorcycles for 30 years, and never knew a motorcyclist who was mean to dogs. I only mention that as it was just very interesting how he shared that part with me. It’s all in observation and patience.
He has become one of the most gentle canines I’ve ever owned. After his first few months of training, he has exhibited not even a hint of aggression … and during that period, the only aggression he showed was directed at me. I expect that, because I continue to push his limits. With a dog that size, and with a truly unknown history of abuse, I need to feel extra confident that if someone were to fall right on top of him, he would not take it as an offensive action, even if it hurt him a lot.
With all that growling back and forth, I would actually growl like a dog right back at him when he growled at me. One day, i realized something had changed. We were no longer growling anymore, but he was still making a similar sound, stopping long enough for me to respond, then he’d do it again.
GROWLING IN C MAJOR
The first thought that came to me was to change my pitch, so I went higher on the next growl, and he mimicked me. I did my best not to laugh … not at him, but at our accomplishment. Then I went low, and he continued to follow me. As time went on, I tried different things, including going from a low pitch to a high pitch in a single growl … and he was able to pull that off, too.
I believe that people, in general, have a very skewed understanding of these animals. I tend to think that many people look at a Shepherd and assume that they are always on edge, always a bit spooky, and always ready to attack. To me, that’s a Great White Shark. I can’t quite get the picture in my mind of me and a Great White, lying next to each other on the floor growling the scale in C major — well, maybe just once.
Dogs naturally only attack other dogs, and not people. Wolves are the same way. There’s no record of any event where a wolf pack attacked people, like so many movies have portrayed them. Generally, wolves fear people, and do everything they can to avoid them. But with our “entertainment” people see that wolves attack people, so some people see that as a right to shoot and kill wolves. But again, in reality, they are pack animals, which means they live, travel, and take care of each other as a family.
Here is a photo of that “mean” Shepherd we rescued (about 18 months later), as well as a copy of the NowPublic.com story.
Larry
August 30th, 2010 at 18:43:21 (6:43 pm)
Hi Melissa,
>> “… make the market a little bigger maybe spread out the booths. It feels so cramped down there …”
Just wondering, but considering your ideas, have you ever been to this Market?
And regarding your girls and dogs, that only takes a little effort: teach them to respect strange dogs, and not approach them. That’s a parent’s responsibility.
Larry
August 30th, 2010 at 19:05:09 (7:05 pm)
I do teach my kids about not touching people’s dogs. I don’t have a problem with dogs or people having them. What makes me nervous is how cramped it is at the market.
When my kids are in their stroller and face to face with a big dog with everyone trying push and shove to get by one another it’s just kind of scary. I know that most people who have a dog that is prone to attack would not bring it, but it only takes one irresponsible person to bring a dangerous dog for someone to get hurt.
I appreciate that dog owners have the right to bring their animals to certain places and I do think its good for dogs to be around people, but if it affects my children’s safety then that is a problem and concern for me as well as other parents.
August 30th, 2010 at 22:02:38 (10:02 pm)
Hi Melissa,
I see what you mean about a stroller, but that keeps them safer since they can’t spook a dog by running up, for example. You referred to your kids — plural — in the stroller. Sounds like a great time to adopt a large, adult dog, from a rescue organization.
Because of the number of dogs being destroyed just because people no longer wanted them or had to give them up (a move, etc.), rescue organizations popped up and began working with the local animal shelters to save the wonderful pets. When someone brings in a Golden Retriever, for example, because they can no longer keep him, the shelter will call the local Golden Retriever Rescue organization to come pick him up.
Those people spend a lot of time with the dog, often in different homes, so as to provide a full dossier when they put him up for adoption. It includes the dog’s interaction with kids, other animals, older folks, if it’s house broken, and on, and on. You’d be bringing home a dog with few to no surprises. Kids learn a lot growing up with big dogs.
And, you missed that one question.
Thanks.
August 30th, 2010 at 22:22:26 (10:22 pm)
Over the years I have owned several dogs, and have loved each and every one. All of my family has dogs, or has had over the years. However, I did not expect strangers to have that same regard for them, nor should I. Owning a pet has many responsibilities.
There are many places that dogs are welcome outside of the home. I do not feel the Farmers Market, with the produce and all foods there, is the place for dogs to be walked, or to socialize.
I don’t know if Larry’s position as Market Director is a paying job, but he seems to have a lot of time on his hands.
August 30th, 2010 at 23:01:46 (11:01 pm)
Hi Jean,
>> “… I did not expect strangers to have that same regard for [my dogs] …”
Well, I agree with you 100% … and since no one else brought that up, would you like to discuss that?
>> “… I do not feel the Farmers Market, with the produce and all foods there, is the place for dogs to be walked, or to socialize.”
And I’m sure a lot of people have your same opinion … differing opinions is what makes this country great. Were your dogs allowed in your house? In the kitchen? Do you believe dogs just getting near food could be a problem for food safety? Like I mentioned previously, farmers have lots of pets and other animals, as well as the wild critters: rats, gophers, etc. … isn’t that one reason we wash produce?
A butt-load of money, Jean … along with gobs of free time. Life is beautiful. What else would you like to know?
August 31st, 2010 at 19:07:33 (7:07 pm)
Good one Larry, love your sense of humor – or was that sarcasm?
Yes, my dogs were allowed in the house, but then again it was my house. I would not expect others to enjoy having them in their homes.
I agree produce is subjected to many types of vermin – yes I do wash my produce. However, what is your thoughts on the food court area? Many foods are prepared and sitting on the tables of the booths. I do know that the larger dogs can easily reach that level.
I’m happy for you that you are drawing a wonderful salary – as far as gobs of free time – give the Humane Society a call, I think they would love to hear from you. Maybe just a little sarcasm (or sense of humor) on my part.
Yes life is beautiful – enjoy it!!
September 1st, 2010 at 10:28:30 (10:28 am)
Yes, I have been to the farmers market. I have only been able to go a few times this year because I’ve been volunteering on Saturdays with my kids and have Bible studys on Wednesday nights.
As reguards to owning a dog. I would love to get a big dog but unfornunately my girls and I have been spending about 50 hours a month in our volunteer work along with all of our other activities. It just wouldn’t be fair to bring home a dog when we all have so little time to spare.
September 5th, 2010 at 11:09:14 (11:09 am)
I’m glad I came across these comments. I was unsure if dogs were accepted at the Farmers Market.
I saw other dogs there, so decided to bring my 11-month old Airedale. She is very sweet and social. Everyone we came across just adored her. She did not try to eat the food, or any children.
It was so nice to be able to take her to a place that both of us could enjoy!
Life is beautiful!